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with comments by David Bruce

HERE'S WHAT I THINK..
Subject: Lord_of_Rings
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001
From: Anthony

Ok, well. I don't understand where the spiritual insight stuff come in to play here at all. I don't get it. Yes, Mr. Tolkien was Catholic, but... let's not assume that every Christian song, book, poem, or other thing is specifically related to God, or isn't complete nonsense... or just doctrine of demons kinda' thing. This book was actually written to be read. Not for any kind of allegorical content whatsoever. I was just reading the stuff that was said about every little thing. ANd all the references from Psalms to Isaiah. That's outrageous guys. Let's not be another blind sheep, too many of those. But rather research, if need be, and definitely lead by the Spirit of God in all things. Without which nothing really matters anyways. But yeah here's an article that I believe the New York Times did, just a short passage from the great monstrosity that was the thing. But yeah here it is.

Students produce lots of allegories. They suggest that the Dark Lord's ring represents the Bomb, and the goblins, the Russians. Or, more cheekily, that Treebeard, the tall treelike being, "his eyes filled with age and long, slow, steady thinking," is Tolkien himself. In a rather portly note to his publishers, he replied: "It is not about anything but itself. (Certainly it has no allegorical intentions, general, particular or topical, moral, religious or political.") But he will agree that the Shire, the agreeable hobbit country, is like the West Midlands he remembers: "It provides a fairly goof living with moderately good husbandry and is tucked away from all the centers of disturbance; it comes to be regarded as divinely protected, though people there didn't realize it at the time. That's rather how England used to be, isn't it? There it is, well I am off to sleep but let's not fall into deception about this movie. My opinion is it contains witchcraft, something God despises. So out of reverence for that thing I will not participate in the watching of the movie. But yeha love you all in Christ.
Much brotherly love,
Anthony

RESPONSES TO NEWSLETTER #29

CONDITIONAL GRACE
Subject: response to John 316 Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 17:11:26 -0800
From: "micki"

What if we replaced the idea of God's judgement with the idea of God removing His grace? Because we have become a Godless society. Didn't God take his grace away in the past? Or at least threaten to? Think of Ninevah...they repented, God relented. As a nation, we have become secularized. We do not let God into the foundations of our government, our schools, we have removed him. It was illegal until just last year or so, to silently pray in the Congressional rotunda.

Many of those groups that Jerry Falwell, (or Falafel, if you prefer!) mentioned have at the very root of their belief system the removal of God or I really mean, Jesus Christ. John 3:16 says "whoever believes in Him will have everlasting life..." It does NOT say, "whoever acknowledges that the person of Jesus existed in a historical context...". So does the grace of God apply to an entire nation that does not accept His Son? I think you have to be a member of the club to have the rights and priveleges. Does that seem exclusionary? You bet! However, everyone has the choice to join (believe) or not.

I think that God removed His hand of mercy from our country so that the CHRISTIANS would repent and interceed for our nation. I believe that we are responsible to God because we profess His Son's name. I think we, as Christians, have become hypocritical and complacent. God wants to bless us. He wants to pour out His mercy and He LET this terrible thing happen. HE DID NOT CAUSE IT!!!! In any way, shape or form! But, He did not prevent it. It was a wake up call, that's all. It was a tragedy, yes! There are perpetrators that need to be punished, yes! But, WE NEED TO PRAY! Now we, as Christians have a choice what we do from here. We should not throw stones, we should be looking at our own lives and our own sin...because we are all sinners!

I am so proud to be an American. But I also am a fundamental, bible believing Christian who is on her face before God for the state of my nation and for the state of my own heart.

Please give these guys a break (Jerry, Pat, Hal, etc). Do they not have the same freedom of speech and belief that the rest of us have? Yes, they have a responsibility before God for the things they say, but God is big enough to deal with their mistakes (If they are making any... who am I to say?). I am so tired of the lobbyist, liberal, pagen, secular groups saying anything they want and it's okay. They can totally trash the fundmental Christians and apparently it is not a problem, even on this site. It is such a double standard! Let both sides have the same freedoms! We are all Americans, that is what makes this country great! God Bless my country, Lord

I pray the prayer of Daniel, found in Daniel 9:4...

Paraphrase... "Lord, you are Great and Awesome. We have sinned and done wrong. We have rebelled and turned from your ways. We are covered in shame because of our unfaithfulness to You...Now, O Lord, hear us and look with favor on us. We do not pray because we are righteous, but because of Your great mercy. Oh Lord, listen! Oh Lord, forgive! Oh Lord, hear and act! For Your sake, do not delay, for we bear Your name."

And that's all I have to say about that!
Micki Newcastle, WA

Response: Grace is never earned, it is unmerited and unconditional. Please ask your pastor about the meaning of Grace."For by grace you are saved, not by works..." Also, why would God "call Christians to repentance" by, in some fashion, killing innocent people in the WTC? Do you really believe this is how God operates. Please think about what you are saying. Your words are a mandate against God, I believe, and not Christians. -David

911 AMENS
Subject: Newsletter_29_I_Like_Jesus_But_Not_Fundamentalism
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Martha Tischler

Dear Bruce
You have again put in print what I prayed other Christians were thinking. Fallwell's statements got me burning mad. And why do they always pick and chose which terrible events are a judgement from God and other's just the result of a fallen world. For instance, how many Christians thought the bombing of Pearl Harbor a judgement or how about the Holocaust? Was it God's will to do in 6 million of his chosen and 6 million other poor souls? Did the Lord arrange the slaughter of the Armenian Christians and the sad deaths of untold Africans in the Sudan. Just think of all the rapes, murders and assaults that might be God's judgements. How about the Civil War? Did the North and South deserve all it got? And everytime a plane crashes, or a train derails, or there's a terrible fire, or a car accident or some other horrible disaster should we all think that this is all God's judgement for our sins? The is no end to the casualty lists that we can lay at the door or heaven. NO - THIS IS NOT JESUS. Jesus came to seek and save those who are lost not to judge. The warped view of some cannot cloud the Christ of love and compassion. And always, He will be seen by those who seek Him and desire peace and love.
Peace to you Bruce In His Service
Martha Tischler

FALAFEL IN ARABIC
Subject: Newsletter # 29 with out Spell Check
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001
From: Congregacion Beit Shalom

Dear David: do you know what "falafel" means in Arabic? It is the arabic equivalent to the Mexican taco!
May Elohim bless you,
Julio Dam Messianic
Renewed Rabbi

AMEN!
Subject: Newsletter_29_Feedup_with_Dooms_Day_Predictions
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Tony

Amen
- Tony
Instructor in Music and Worship Studies
Columbia Bible College

HIGH 5 BROTHER!
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Keith

It good to see, a christian. willing to stick, his neck out and risk, getting his head chopped off, for the lord. sent with joy and love! ?
Keith
http://community.webtv.net/KeithWK/PSALM45 http://community.webtv.net/KeithWK/Thepottersclay

Response: I do get the eggs. Ahh! So what. I like scrambled eggs any time of the day. Thanks for your encouragement -David

BOLD
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Kevin

It`s good to be Bold in the spirit.
Keep on saying, what you want to say to us.
Thumbs Up!.
Kevin
http://community.webtv.net/KevinKunz/JESUSTHEWAY

THANKS!
Subject: Newsletter_29_Feedup_with_Dooms_Day_Predictions
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Pastor Charles Isaac

Good comments.
I have forwarded them to may people!
Pastor Charles Isaac
First Baptist Church
Taylorville IL

Response: Thanks Pastor, I can always use a good blessing. I will bet you gotta cool church -David

EVANGELICAL PASTOR FED UP WITH EVANGELICAL SUB CULTURE
Subject: Newsletter_29I _I_Like_Jesus_But_Not_Fundamentalism
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: "Peg Peters"

I am a pastor in an evangelical church and I can hardly take it anymore! I am from Canada and it is just as bad up here with the evangelical sub-culture. Keep up your excellent work! I came down for the City of Angels film Festival - I was sad that you were not there? I would be willing to write a review of the event if you want one.
Rev Randy Peg Peters,
Phd candidate
Simon Fraser University
Vancouver BC Canada

Response: So sorry for not being at the Film Fest, I was in the hospital and could not make it. My physical health recently has been real good. I did so miss the fest and I am sorry to have missed the opportunity of meeting you. Thank you for your kind words. -David

TOLERANCE VERSUS LOVE
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: "Nick Alexander" The Catholic "Weird Al"

Hi David!! Always a pleasure to hear from you. Very good article.

If I have a concern, it's that, yes, we live in a pluralistic society, and there always seem to be two responses: either damn all those who don't agree with you, or tolerate their existence. I think there's a third approach, and that is to love people who disagree with you. However, to love is a step beyond tolerance--it's about dialogue. It's about understanding that it's not logical to have contradictory beliefs sharing their existence in this wide world of ideas.

Someone who loves a person with another belief takes great pains to understand the other person's perspective, and loving them unconditionally--whether they will convert to Christianity or not. This takes time. This may challenge your own deeply held beliefs. If you're truly walking with Christ, you should have no fear.

But tolerance can be just as bad as intolerance--it's neglect with a happy feel. Treat differing beliefs with the highest respect by calling them to question where they differ from yours, with love, with real-honest-love, and not mere toleration-due-to-circumstance.
Nick Alexander
The Catholic "Weird Al"
http://www.nickalexander.com

Response: Keep on keepin on brother. Love your ministry -David

SELF CENSORING
Subject: Newsletter_29_Hollywood_Censoring_Hollywood
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Kevin

Hollywood should Cenor it`s self!
- Kevin

AMERICA FROM A NEW ZEALAND OF VIEW
Subject: Newsletter_29_Revising.John_3_16
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001
From: Norman

I would like to say as a non American in general I agree with what you say. I am a Christian and I live in New Zealand. You will find it on a map east of Australia.

I have not read or heard anyone in NZ say that the US got what it deserved but myself like a lot of others cannot see why the US was so blind that they could not see the hatred many countries have towards the US because of its incredibly nationalistic policies which assume that the US is always right and that they are Gods official agents in the world.

Here a fundamental tenant of Christianity is that we should love our neighbours as ourselves. That we should treat people like we would want to people to treat us. This idea seems to be unknown in the US and this causes great amazement here that a country where an extremely high percentage of people go to church that this commandment of Christ is ignored or at best watered down.

The comments by your President on the Kyoto agreement incensed many people outside the US. He said that he would not sign any document the disadvantaged US business. This was very selfish. When Regan was in power the US was the only country in the world not to sign the Marine Resources treaty. Why? Because it would disadvantage US business.

The US uses something like a third of the worlds energy. How do Americans justify that?

Madeline Albright described the deaths of an estimated half-a-million Iraqi children as a result of Western (US led) sanctions as a 'price worth paying'. Neither the Government or leader of Iraq has changed their policies so why punish people who cannot change anything?

For years the US has backed dictators because it was claimed that they would give a country stability. With stability would come better trading conditions for US business. People who opposed these dictators were branded communists. The US trains and uses terrorists all over the world. Are the people they kill worth any less to God than US citizens? What is special about American citizens?

The US does not seem to have faced up to the fact that they trained the Taliban and that as recently as May this year they received a large financial grant from the US.

Where is or was she Christian outrage at the US supplying biological weapons during the Iran-Iraq war?

NZ has had bad relationships with the US for many years as a result of our non-nuclear policy. Should this happen in a democracy? Why are Australian and NZ farmers practically forbidden to export meat to the US inspite of the World Trade Organisation policy that such restrictions are illegal?

The US while claiming to be a Christian country shows little evidence of being so unless there is something in it for themselves. Blaming God for what happens is a way of letting the US not face up to the real issues which I believe are not religious at all but examples of human greed and selfishness. Of dismissing the views of others as of no consequence.
Norman

Response: Thank you Norman. I really appreciate your insights. We in the US are often short sighted. So thanks again for your insight. -David

DOOMSDAY CHRISTIANS ARE SPOILED BRATS
Subject: Newsletter_29 _Feedup_with_Dooms_Day_Predictions
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: I Utley

I thought your words about the WTC tragedy and the Fundamentalist Christian response were apropos. John 3:17 clearly states that God did not send His son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. Christians have twisted God's message and now promote a message that describes God as this cosmic bully who beats you into submission to Him through judgment, tragedy and pain. That's bullshit.

Most importantly, Christians forget a fundamental message in scripture. God does not discipline those who are not His children. Hebrews chapter 12 says:

5: And have you forgotten the exhortation which addresses you as sons? -- "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor lose courage when you are punished by him. 6: For the Lord disciplines him whom he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." 7: It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8: If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9: Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? 10: For they disciplined us for a short time at their pleasure, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. 11: For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. 12: Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees, 13: and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed. 14: Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

Consider the lack of logic in what some Christians teach. They are like a bunch of little whiny kids mad about the fact that their friends get away with stuff that they get spanked for. It is like whining to your father about spanking you for stealing and replying "My best friend from next door Bobby steals and you don't spank him!" His natural response, as is God's, "Bobby is not my child. But you are. My children do not steal. I see to that."

The sad thing is, all the while, Bobby is looking at the relationship you have with your Dad and longing for a father who would love him enough to teach him right from wrong and discipline him to help him know the boundaries and become a better person as well as protect him from the evil in the world. Even sadder, you have been adopted by your loving father and you know that if Bobby knew enough to just ask, your loving father would adopt him too. Yet sadder, your father encourages you to let Bobby know that if he wants, he can be adopted too, but you are so stuck on yourself that you see to it that you never mention it or all you do is talk about how your father is such a strict disciplinarian but you never mention the unconditional love he has to offer.

Christians are so f**king spoiled and selfish!
--I Utley

Response: I like your relational analogy. Very good. -David

THANKS
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: "Mike Furches"

David, I receive numerous newsletters and many I just delete. Yours I read from cover to cover or from top to bottom. Again you make me smile, laugh, cry, and pray. I thank you for your courage to stand for truth and dignity. Can't say for sure but I betcha that the Lord is pleased a great deal with your work. Keep it up and keep on sharing the truth. Feel free to use if you want on the newsletter site.
God Bless & Thanks for helping keep me focused.
Mike Furches

Response: Thanks Mike, I always appreciat you. -David

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